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Hostel booking agents authorising anonymous comments can ruin your business

Hostel Reviews, Booking Engines, and Directories

Paul Ad started this discussion 13 years 7 months ago

Hi All,
I'm investigating the issue of fake reviews and untrue claims about hostels and hotels posted on the big hostel and hotel booking websites.

It seems to me that these agents are using the so called privacy law to authorise the publishing of potentially untrue and unfair comments about hostels and hotels.

We all know that the privacy laws these agents hide behind are there to protect individuals. However, these agents appear to be using this very point of law to authorise individuals to post potentially damaging comments.....without any proof or investigation into whether the users comments are true or not.

The method used at the moment is akin to "Publish and be damned".

However, there is another law which exists which states that the owner of the website is directly responsible for what is published on it's website.
Additionally, these agents invite these comments.
Therefore, they authorise them without paying attention to the content.

i think this must stop now.

Not the ability for "guests" to stop making reviews....but the attitude of the big hostel and hotel agents to allow the publishing of comments and claims that DIRECTLY affect YOUR business, without checking the facts and the truth of the situation.

Are you concerned by this? you should be.

Let's start a debate about this, let's see what hostel owners and staff say about this.

The floor is yours!

What do your REALLY think of these agents who you are a customer of?

Do they really have your interests in mind? or just their 10%?

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crhostel

13 years

What laws and jurisdiction are you referring to?

Anonymous reviews suck, but it's part of the territory. An honestly high-quality establishment, in my opinion, shouldn't worry about this too much as the honest-good reviews will drastically outweigh the bad and potentially false. I'd be amused to hear how a booking agent is supposed to check the "facts and truth of the situation"? The cost would be outrageous just in time spent, and then all they'd be doing is hearing two sides of a story with no real proof. The agent would be akin to a first grade teacher mediating a dispute over who stole who's building blocks.

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Josh Hostels

13 years

However, there is another law which exists which states that the owner of the website is directly responsible for what is published on it's website.
Additionally, these agents invite these comments.
Therefore, they authorise them without paying attention to the content.

It depends on the country. In the US, owners of websites are not responsible for user-generated content.

If owners of websites were responsible for what users post, it would stifle free speech on the Internet. I wouldn't be able to run websites like HostelManagement.com if I were always worrying about facing a court battle every time someone says something controversial. :)

I agree that something should be done about any fake reviews that are posted, but not by making webmasters liable for user generated content.

Review websites are only useful to visitors if they are trusted. If you can prove to the public that a particular review website isn't credible, then that review website would either have to take action to fix the problem, or lose credibility in the eyes of the public...

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Paul Ad

13 years

Let me expand on my thoughts a bit further.

Example:

A guest, gets invited by an online booking service to leave a review of their stay at a hostel.
In the review, the guest enters that they were offered drugs for sale by a member of the hostel staff.
The review gets published automatically.

This would show no care and attention to the legality of what is being published.
No checks would be performed by the booking service for content of the published review.

Is it right that a hostel or any business can be faced with this situation, that a booking agent would allow the poster to remain anonymous in the face of such a grave and serious accusation?
Is it right that the booking agent can even consider being party to the publishing of such accusations without proof that what the poster says is or is not true?

I agree that there are perhaps some petty issues that could be seen as the agent being no more than a mediator in a first grade classroom.
But, there are also some very serious issues that this raises.
An accusation of Drugs being sold is not a light issue.

The point of law would be determined from the legal base country of the agent.

For example, IWB would be bound by US law, Hostelworld by Irish law and Hostelbookers by English law.

It's not about stifling free speech.
It's not about worrying about a court battle everytime someone says something controversial.

It's about potentially allowing posters or Reviewers to be able to write an accusation of illegal activity without any fear of having to prove the accusation, and also having the luxury of being able to remain anonymous if so wished.

In US law, the agent is not liable for third party posting content, as long as the agents website has not encouraged the content.
In UK law and probably Irish law, it is far more complex.

But, this is not just about law.
It is also about being a customer. A customer of the booking agents. A paying customer.

In what other business to business industry does a customer of a company have the company who is their supplier take their money and then allow someone to make public accusations and, potentially, lie about the said companies customer?

In effect, could it be that the agents are operating a 2 faced business? , and some might say, have a conflict of interest?

So, it is about how you treat your customer, in addition to points of law.

The law aspect needs more study to decide upon this aspect thoroughly.
But, if a hostel wanted to warn other hostels about a guest who, let's say damaged the hostel or sold drugs in the hostel, the hostel could not do this, because it would be barred from such action due to the understanding of the law of protecting individuals.

In most countries, a business is it's own seperate legal entity and individual.
Should the laws not also stand up for those businesses who are their own legal individuals to protect them against false accusations, to the same extent that individuals are covered?

In my mind, if someone wants to make an accusation about anything, about anyone or any business, then shouldn't that individual be willing to stand up and be prepared to verify the accusation?

Should the agents allow these types of accusations to be published at all, without verification? without proof?
Then, if the claim is not verifiable, then perhaps it should not be published?

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Josh Hostels

13 years

No checks would be performed by the booking service for content of the published review.

Is it right that a hostel or any business can be faced with this situation, that a booking agent would allow the poster to remain anonymous in the face of such a grave and serious accusation?
Is it right that the booking agent can even consider being party to the publishing of such accusations without proof that what the poster says is or is not true?

If a business knows that a review about them isn't true, there are a few options:

contact the booking engine and explain the situation. It's possible that they will remove a fake bad review if you can make a good case. I'm guessing this works best if your overall reviews are very good, and there are just a few terrible reviews (that might even come from the same IP address). For example, "we threw out this guest for being too drunk and harassing other guests, and then he wrote a revenge review saying that the staff tried to sell him drugs."
press libel charges on the poster (not the website)
pressure the booking engines and hostel directories to fix their fake review problems. From other discussions about fake reviews in the forum, it seems that the booking engines need better systems for monitoring fake reviews.

I think review posters should remain anonymous, because it's quite possible that an accusation is true. There are more genuine bad reviews out there then fake bad reviews. If fake bad reviews are a chronic problem, there is probably one source, and you could build a legal case against the individual which would eventually reveal their identity.

If webmasters had to worry about getting sued, they would start pulling all negative content off of their websites at the slightest threat of legal action, which would stifle free speech.

Question: are there any hostels that have tried to get a fake bad review removed from Hostelworld and weren't able to do it?

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crhostel

13 years

I have been successful and unsuccessful in getting fake reviews removed from our hostelworld listing, just 2 over 5 years. It seemed to depend more on who I was working with at HW at the time, than any formal policy. I was successful in getting a horrible posting on Craigslit about our hostel removed. We had to have the guest removed by the police, and she followed up with a scathing open letter on Craigslist. I emailed them when I saw, and they were very happy to take it down.

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Josh Hostels

13 years

There is also a related thread here:
http://www.hostelmanagement.com/forums/can-travelers-be-sued-negative-hotel-or-hostel-reviews.html

I've moved most of the forum threads about hostel reviews to a new section:
http://www.hostelmanagement.com/forum/f54/

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BenjaminYap

13 years

Hi,

Yes, I agree with many of the points you have made.

I think some of the booking agents do not have the interests of accommodation providers but only their 10% commission per booking and the guest(s), are bias, and unreasonable, including Hostelworld and a New Zealand based travel booking website Travelbug, and probably more that are not mentioned.

I think this must stop now too, that they authorise comments without paying attention to the content.
"Reviews don't expire; we keep them on our site forever." - TripAdvisor.com

Comments posted by guests/site users get published faster than the responses of the operators to appear on booking agents websites, something like this on TripAdvisor.com:

"Thank you!

Responses that meet our management response guidelines will be posted on TripAdvisor within two to three business days. we appreciate your patience.

If you have a question about your response, we will contact you via e-mail. Please add [email][email protected][/email] to your e-mail address book to make sure these messages are delivered to your inbox.

If your response is not posted within a week and you have not received an e-mail from us, please check your filter to see if our e-mail is there."

It is free for the guests/site users to post comments but not for the operator. Expensive for most operators to get a "Business Listing" on TripAdvisor/costs 10% commission per booking to get listed for free on other booking agents websites.

Also, if TripAdvisor tries to detect fraud/moderate reviews by finding out the IP addresses of the reviewer(s), I do not think that is the best way as guests may be using a hotel's WiFi Internet service to post positive and negative reviews about that hotel on the site. If or when that happens the property gets the "large red penalty notice" on their listing, drop in "popularity index", "no longer be eligible for inclusion in TripAdvisor's Travelers Choice awards, Top 10 lists, press releases, etc." for punishment? Some guests of mine could also use their own laptops/mobiles to connect through the router to the Internet, to post reviews.

Another Related Example to this topic:

A guest who stayed at one of our properties. Posted untrue and false comments including stating the amount of the booking higher than the actual booking amount the guest booked for, and other nonsensical comments.

I then contacted the Travel National Account Manager of the company that owns the website who replied with (some sensitive information replaced with ***):

Subject: RE: Removal of False and Malicious Comment by ***** ******
From: "***** ********"
Date: Mon, September 26, 2011 11:55 am
To: ***
Cc: "BookIt Helpdesk"
Priority: Normal

Hi Benjamin.

The thing with comments is there is a reason why people post them, and as much as I would like to remove the comment from ***** ****** I would first like to learn a little more from you – and give you the benefit of my doubt.

I was hoping to find some positive reviews on your accommodation business on Trip Advisor, but instead I have found more reason to turn off your Travelbug listing.

Please give me a call on ** *** **** when you get the opportunity.

Best regards,

*****

They did not remove the comment. They found and trusted negative reviews on TripAdvisor that are misleading, "unvalidated and libelous"? (Source: TripAdivsor-Warning.com). I personally do not trust and do not find TripAdvisor useful either ever since I heard about it before operating a hostel or entering the industry. The site sounded like a joke and has been. Anyone can post anything, to damage any tourism/accommodation/restaurant/cruise operator without evidence and get away with it? Yes and unacceptable.

"There may be some customers who use it as an opportunity to complain about their stay, this is human nature and something that is beyond our control" (Quote from a Wotif Product Manager sent via email). But there are other and better methods of getting feedback from guests who have stayed at any property. We have received a number of positive feedback from guests who have booked through hostelbookers, hostelworld, email, phone call, walk ins. Genuine positive feedback does not need to come from only one source.

I did not know about Hostelworld.com until one of our guest told us that we were not on that website who told us about that website in early 2010. At that time, we found the website interesting and so we signed up and got listed. Then after about a year of using their services we decided not to use their system for having a number of problems including technical problems with some credit card transactions being declined.

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