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USA's Image Problem

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Josh started this discussion 17 years 2 weeks ago

People in Brazil can´t afford guns!

There is a good Brazilian movie called Cidade de Deus. If you rent the DVD version there is also a very interesting documentary about the gun problems there...

What I had in mind is that you have a serious image problem. [...] also most of your politicians.

Yeah... no argument there. Terrible politicians... Most people here don't like them. I think the president was recently at 30% approval ratings. I don't know if I should speak to much about it though. Maybe I should make a 'politics' forum and confine that kind of chaos to a designated section of the forum. :)

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santa klaus

17 years

There is a good Brazilian movie called Cidade de Deus. If you rent the DVD version there is also a very interesting documentary about the gun problems there...

I know, I´m exaggerating. I just tried to wind up a few Americans here. :)

Let´s exaggerate even more to make the point clear.
Most people on earth know far too little about Belgium to be even prejudiced, so the Belgian tourism industry doesn´t have to bother about what tourists think about Belgium: nothing.
The USA are of course the opposite. Nearly everybody on earth has an opinion about America. I remember that poll where most people on earth think the USA are the world´s biggest threat to peace.
This isn´t only about the Bush administration. Bill Clinton, who was basically a cool president, is responsible for forcing down neoliberal "reforms" onto countries like Argentina through the IMF, which lead to the collapse of their economy and impoverishment of the middle classes there. South Americans are well aware of that. Other example: without Kissinger´s help, Pinochet would have never been able to usurp power in Chile. Now Michael Moore shows the world (OK, he exaggerates wildly!) that 50 million Americans have no health insurance whatsoever (unthinkable in Europe) and even those who do would be better off with the health system in... Cuba! All the while the government seems to have plenty money for a pointless and cruel war in Iraq.
Then your crazy televangelists with their huge influence in politics! I mentioned gun crime. I remember those German tourists who were shot dead by a carjacker in Miami because they left the highway at the wrong exit. Germans freaked out when they saw that on TV - it´s very, very bad PR for your tourism industry!

Many Europeans think the USA are a genuinely evil country (OK maybe better than North Korea or Saudi Arabia but unfortunately much more powerful) and also what you call a "failed state". Maybe not as bad as Pakistan or Somalia, but not as "civilized" as Europe either.

Of course all that is only half of the truth, if that. I work with and talk to Americans every day and I don´t have the impression they´re vile characters (on the contrary) and they seem to be quite happy with their home country, too.

Anyway - I think you´ll understand what I mean about your "image problem".

Err... sorry for hijacking this thread. I guess we need an "off-topic" forum here...

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Josh Hostels

17 years

Many Americans would agree with what you wrote above.

http://www.dccomics.com/mad/media/downloads/pirates_poster.jpg

The televangelists and fundamentalists have been taking a beating. This is one of the interesting, recent stories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard

I mentioned gun crime. I remember those German tourists who were shot dead by a carjacker in Miami because they left the highway at the wrong exit. Germans freaked out when they saw that on TV - it´s very, very bad PR for your tourism industry!

I think that those shootings took place in Fort Lauderdale, just north of Miami. I used to live near there. That area has been cleaned up since then. Fort Lauderdale is probably still more dangerous than most of Germany, but safer than a lot of places that travellers go.

Many Europeans think the USA are a genuinely evil country (OK maybe better than North Korea or Saudi Arabia but unfortunately much more powerful) and also what you call a "failed state". Maybe not as bad as Pakistan or Somalia, but not as "civilized" as Europe either.

The country has been hijacked by really bad people.

Of course all that is only half of the truth, if that. I work with and talk to Americans every day and I don´t have the impression they´re vile characters (on the contrary) and they seem to be quite happy with their home country, too.

Most people love their country, even if their government is not good. If you take an American and put them in a room full of non-Americans who are hostile to America, the American probably isn't going to talk about how bad his country is while listening to everyone say, "USA is terrible" (even if they agree with parts of it).

If you came to this town in Massachusetts and walked around asking people what they think about the government and the war I think the vast majority would say that they are angry about the current situation. It would probably be the same on most university campuses. If you went to smaller cities in a place like Texas it might be different though.

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santa klaus

17 years

The country has been hijacked by really bad people.

Well... you elected scumbags like Ronald Reagan and Bush (senior and junior). Shit like this happens in Europe, too (ie Italy and Poland, or Waldheim and Haider here in Austria), but not all the time.
I think the problem in the USA is "mainstream media" - they do a very poor job, compared with Europe, making it very easy for scumbags to get (and stay in) power.

I know the story about Ted Haggard - I watched a few of his interviews on Youtube. Reminds me of the Bad Religion song "Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction". :D

Anyway, I do think it´s a great country, maybe not for living there (sorry I cant resist it) but certainly for travelling. If the Dollar continues to lose value, it´ll be a big backpacker destination. I travelled a lot through South America and I hardly saw any female backpackers there - I think many of them are afraid of third-world countries. Unfortunately, the USA haven´t got the reputation to be a very safe country either, but unlike Brazil I think you can fix that.
Falling real estate prices will make it easy to open hostels. The weak dollar will attract low-budget travellers. A good hostel scene will attract even more.

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Josh Hostels

17 years

Well... you elected scumbags like Ronald Reagan and Bush (senior and junior). Shit like this happens in Europe, too (ie Italy and Poland, or Waldheim and Haider here in Austria), but not all the time.

It's debatable whether Bush Jr. was "elected" (electronic voting machines). And Carter probably lost to Reagan because of the Iran hostage problem -- which conveniently ended 6 minutes minutes after Reagan was sworn into office. Later Reagan was caught selling arms to Iran.

"Elected" is debatable :)

I think the problem in the USA is "mainstream media" - they do a very poor job, compared with Europe, making it very easy for scumbags to get (and stay in) power.

The laws that kept media independent were eroded and now most of the media are owned by a few corporations. The news here is definitely junk...

Unfortunately, the USA haven´t got the reputation to be a very safe country either, but unlike Brazil I think you can fix that.

It is very strange when I hear people say that the USA is not very safe. It's depends where you are. The only place I've ever been attacked was in Athens, Greece...

South Florida is not the best place, but it's not as dangerous as it was in the 80s or 90s. I was just living down in Miami recently and I survived... :)

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santa klaus

17 years

It's debatable whether Bush Jr. was "elected" (electronic voting machines).

True. Gore got more votes than Bush. I wonder why he doesn´t want to run again. I think Hillary is currupt and Barack is a bit too much sanctimonious for my taste.

And Carter probably lost to Reagan because of the Iran hostage problem -- which conveniently ended 6 minutes minutes after Reagan was sworn into office.

When Aznar tried to pull off a similar thing after the Madrid bombings (blaming them on ETA even though he knew better) it went terribly wrong. Maybe we can´t be fooled so easily? :cool:

Later Reagan was caught selling arms to Iran.

I remember that. A European head of government would be hanged upside down for something like that (well, I hope).

The laws that kept media independent were eroded and now most of the media are owned by a few corporations. The news here is definitely junk...

We have tendencies like this in Europe - very worrying. Just think about Berlusconi.

It is very strange when I hear people say that the USA is not very safe. It's depends where you are. The only place I've ever been attacked was in Athens, Greece...

South Florida is not the best place, but it's not as dangerous as it was in the 80s or 90s. I was just living down in Miami recently and I survived... :)

Well!
It also depends where you are in Colombia. If you don´t go to Guerilla land it´s as safe as any other country in South America. Colombians know this and wonder why we think the whole country is unsafe.
There are a few unsafe areas in Europe, too (like some suburbs of Paris), but these are places where no tourist would ever go anyway. For us Europeans, the nice and safe areas are the city centers. I remember when I saw a few German tourists in downtown Atlanta, looking terribly lost. There isn´t anything at all worth seing there and I guess it´s also full of pretty weird people at night.
I live in Vienna. It´s so safe it´s almost boring. There´s no "it depends where you are" here.

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Josh Hostels

17 years

True. Gore got more votes than Bush. I wonder why he doesn´t want to run again. I think Hillary is currupt and Barack is a bit too much sanctimonious for my taste.

Elections here are sad. I think Gore has a chance, but he probably won't run.

I was in Fort Lauderdale (election hotbed) for the past two elections. This is not entirely a joke:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5508648014706415936&hl=en

I also took photos of a fake pro-Bush rally last election -- the Republicans were paying Haitians $100 per day to hold "Bush/Cheney" signs. The Haitians said that they wanted Kerry to win, but that they needed the cash.

(not that Kerry was a good choice either)

Interesting story that got buried: 51-49 sounds familiar:
http://alternet.org/blogs/video/40755/

I remember when I saw a few German tourists in downtown Atlanta, looking terribly lost. There isn't anything at all worth seing there...

That wouldn't be my first choice for a trip, but I've never been there. Maybe there is something interesting...

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santa klaus

17 years

I was in Fort Lauderdale (election hotbed) for the past two elections. This is not entirely a joke:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5508648014706415936&hl=en

Haha, Boom Chicago. I saw one of their shows in Amsterdam two years ago (thanks again to the Flying Pig Hostels for the invitation!). They are absolutely brilliant.

Interesting story that got buried: 51-49 sounds familiar:
http://alternet.org/blogs/video/40755/

Waitwaitwait. There is a software engineer of the company which produced the voting machines and he says (under oath!) that he was asked by a major politician to write software to rig the election? And that the election WAS rigged, by using his software? Did I understand that right?
And you´re telling me this did NOT result in hell breaking loose???
OMG.

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Josh Hostels

17 years

Waitwaitwait. There is a software engineer of the company which produced the voting machines and he says (under oath!) that he was asked by a major politician to write software to rig the election? And that the election WAS rigged, by using his software? Did I understand that right?
And you´re telling me this did NOT result in hell breaking loose???
OMG.

Shocking story... I looked around and could not find any evidence of his being seriously discredited. The story just never appeared in the media. No one knows.

A highly unlikely 51-49 election result sounds like the last two presidential elections.

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flaviopezzini

13 years

From my perspective all this chat only happens because USA happens to be the Big Brother on the Block.

I have worked for Dell and I have tons of American friends. NONE of them reminds me of the image USA has around the world. It's just because they're the stronger ones around. I honestly believe if say China takes over (hypothetically speaking), everybody would turn the Cannon to them :)

... and if Germany was the stronger one, then we would talk bad things about Germany, and so on.

Like, everybody can say good things about their countries, however if an American does so they're considered arrogants.

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Josh Hostels

13 years

NONE of them reminds me of the image USA has around the world.

Glad to hear that. :)

This is a topic that is very interesting to me, because I sometimes encounter hostility overseas. The country has serious problems and deserves intense criticism about certain things, but I think it's a mistake when people lump everyone from the US into one group...

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