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Definition of a Hostel

The Ideal Hostel

uktrail started this discussion 16 years 11 months ago

I am coming more and more across places which call themselves 'hostel' in their name, but which have more the character of a B&B/Guest House/Pension.

Hostels do of course vary over a wide range of standards from a simple country farmhouse with self-catering and 8-bed dorms only, through to facilities with dorms and private rooms with TV and en-suite and all meals available.

The British tourist bureaus have definitions which distinguish between 'Hostel', 'Bunkhouse' and 'Camping Barn' in terms of facilities and awarding stars. But I think we should agree on a definition of 'Hostel' with worldwide application. This forum seems a good place to determine such a definition.

Relevant points:
1) You might say: To be a hostel, there must be dorm beds. I would say: Not quite so. What is essential is: They don't charge more for an individual traveller than for one of a couple. I think indeed this is the crucial definition. So if a facility charges, say, £16 per person for a couple in a double room, and £16 for an individual and chooses to put him in a single room, they are eligible. But if they charge £18 for an individual traveller, they are NOT ELIGIBLE.

2) A common room. Some hostels fail on this -- there's one in Edinburgh that brings your breakfast to your bedroom and has no common area. Some are pretty poor, with a sofa and chair in the reception hall having to suffice. Some have a common room with chairs in a semicircle facing a TV, which is not very congenial. Some have a common room which is so placed that people don't bother to discover it.

3) A self-catering kitchen. I would like to make this an essential criterion, but unfortunately that would leave out many facilities, some of them excellent in other ways. In some countries this is not normal at all. Some have a limited kitchen, eg microwaves and 2 stools to sit at. Some are miserly with equpment -- 2 battered pans, no soup bowls, no dishwashing soap -- and I've seen kitchens with no equipment AT ALL!

It is quite common now for hostels to try to cater for different types of traveller from the backpacker to the family and business visitor, and the YHA does this. New facilities call themselves 'hotel and hostel' in the hope of attracting all types, but they haven't always grasped what a hostel really is. For example, they seem determined that everybody wants privacy.

The definition I use is:

A hostel must provide budget-price accommodation, including 1-night stays, must welcome individual travellers and must not charge them more than a member of a couple or group. A hostel must have a common room where guests can sit and chat, or eat communally.

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gordo

15 years

People are able to make up their own minds - if someone is looking for a USD $10 a night dorm room, they're not going to book a USD $500 a night 5* Hotel by accident.

true, but you're lookign at extremes. what about someone looking for a €25 euro dorm bed but is bombarded with €40 hotel rooms? what about people who book a 'hostel' but end up in a hotel?

Perhaps your definition is becoming dated, and doesn't take into account changing perceptions towards Hostels. To me, being a Hostel isn't about the sleeping arrangements - it's all the other stuff, it's the ethos that makes a Hostel what it is. There's still a place for "old school" Backpackers, but there's a place for Boutique Hostels as well - your definition doesn't take account of the progression & development of Hostels to meet changing expectations.

nobody's doubting that the traditional 'hostel' market is changing but the nature of a definition is that its specific. whilst it eventually worked in 'the castle' (great movie), 'its the vibe' doesnt really make for a good definition. sure, it may fit your definition of a hostel but what about person B's? if you're going to open the definition up to anywhere that embraces a hostel 'ethos' you completely defeat the purpose of defining the word in the first place; either because anyone can define the 'ethos' as they choose or because you end up using the term in the defition: 'a hostel is anywhere that defines themselves as a hostel' isnt a definition, its circular reasoning.

hostel, hotels, boutique hostels, campsites all exist in the same market and may appeal to the same people. equally, each property may appeal to multiple markets - but that doesnt change what a hostel is. and to me, and it would appear most here, an absolutely integral part of a hostel is sharing your accommodation. a hostel that doesnt offer this is a hotel or guesthouse - maybe a great hotel/guesthouse, maybe one aimed at young people - whatever market its going after.

i should add, please dont feel offended or defensive about our definition. nobody is saying taht if you dont have shared dorms you're somehow a lesser facility, or that we dont have loads in common. its just that just as cats and dogs both have 4 legs, fur and sharp teeth; theyre still fundamentally different in certain areas, and thats what defines them. its probably a cliche, but its what separates us (hostels) from other accommodation providers is what defines us.

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Josh Hostels

15 years

People are able to make up their own minds - if someone is looking for a USD $10 a night dorm room, they're not going to book a USD $500 a night 5* Hotel by accident.

What happens is that hostel booking engines and affiliates target the people who are looking for hostels and then upsell hotels, with not enough distinction between the types of properties.

If not "hostels", what word should be used for a properties that offer shared accommodation? There are already words for properties that offer private accommodation (hotel, guesthouse, backpacker hotel, B&B, etc.).

Perhaps your definition is becoming dated, and doesn't take into account changing perceptions towards Hostels. To me, being a Hostel isn't about the sleeping arrangements - it's all the other stuff, it's the ethos that makes a Hostel what it is. There's still a place for "old school" Backpackers, but there's a place for Boutique Hostels as well - your definition doesn't take account of the progression & development of Hostels to meet changing expectations.

I see hostels as a type of accommodation that has certain sleeping arrangements (as well as other factors mentioned in the definition). If the dorms are removed it's not the same.

Hostels are changing and there are boutique hostels, such as Oops Paris, Czech Inn, and Lisbon Lounge -- but they all offer dorms for single travelers.

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Josh Hostels

15 years

true, but you're lookign at extremes. what about someone looking for a €25 euro dorm bed but is bombarded with €40 hotel rooms? what about people who book a 'hostel' but end up in a hotel?

Here's an example:

Google search for hostels in Grenoble:

IMAGE(http://www.hostelmanagement.com/forum/attachments/f15/447d1243961151-definition-hostel-grenoble-hostels-google.png)

Click the first result and get a header that says "Cheap Hostels in Grenoble, France, Europe... Hostelworld.com brings you online bookings at the best selection of hostels in Grenoble.". There are three properties listed:

IMAGE(http://www.hostelmanagement.com/forum/attachments/f15/448d1243961151-definition-hostel-hostelworld-grenoble.png)

The cheapest property says "Beds From €27.50", but when I go to book it for one person it says €55.00 per night. There is no real €27.50 price and there are no hostels in Grenoble listed there.

Despite all of that there is a hostel in Grenoble at only 18.30 EUR per night for one person for the same date, but what happened is all the sites in the top 10 of Google are optimized for the keywords "Grenoble hostels", but only 2 of the results actually offer Grenoble hostels (HIhostels.com and Bug.co.uk).

There's even a property out there calling itself a "backpackers" when all it offers is private apartments for only "14 euro per night" -- when you book 8 people. So the backpacker thinks they're getting a 14 euro "backpackers", but they're really looking at a 225 euro per night apartment.

IMAGE(http://www.hostelmanagement.com/forum/attachments/f15/450d1243961990-definition-hostel-backpackers-apartments-hw.png)

This is an issues that I think hostels are facing, and the I think the definition is trying to maintain that hostels are distinct from hotels or other types of accommodation.

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Goofys

15 years

to me, and it would appear most here

the majority of 14 people

an absolutely integral part of a hostel is sharing your accommodation

I still think the Guardian came pretty close: -

[INDENT]What still distinguishes the hostel from its bigger, more expensive brothers is that each retains some form of communal living; shared social spaces that bring travellers together, even if it's just a bar and kitchen.[/INDENT]

Granted it is more open, and harder to enforce, but I think it captures the ethos of a Hostel.

If not "hostels", what word should be used for a properties that offer shared accommodation?

I think you have already answered your own question: -

Definition of Hostel

A hostel or backpackers hostel is a budget-oriented dormitory accommodation...

I don't think you should shorten "Backpackers Hostel" to Hostel (that's what I feel your definition describes) - I think you should shorten "Backpackers Hostel" to Backpackers.

Perhaps there could be a convention where, if you are offering Hostel ethos accommodation to a niche market you identify the niche: -

Surfers' Hostel
18-30's Hostel
Couples Hostel
Family Hostel
Group Hostel
Boutique Hostel
Walkers Hostel
XYZ Hostel

and if you are offering Hostel ethos accommodation with a general mix of shared dorms, and private rooms - then the generic term Hostel is appropriate.

Google search for hostels in Grenoble:

... and if you search for grenoble hostel, HI - Hostel Grenoble - Echirolles Youth Hostel comes top...

... search for newquay hostel/s and you get a pretty good mix,
and london hostel/s again a pretty good mix,
cardiff hostel/s, birmingham hostel/s, glasgow hostel/s - a pretty good mix.

Hostels advertise on B&B/Guesthouse websites, B&B/Guesthouses advertise on Hotel websites, Hotels advertise on Hostel websites - disseminating a restrictive definition of a Hostel won't change that. If a website doesn't provide the information people are looking for, they'll just hit the back button, and move on to the next one.

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gordo

15 years

the majority of 14 people

thats the problem with this forum... to many lurkers, not enough posters.

I still think the Guardian came pretty close: -

What still distinguishes the hostel from its bigger, more expensive brothers is that each retains some form of communal living; shared social spaces that bring travellers together, even if it's just a bar and kitchen.

hotels have bars - theyre communal. camping grounds have shared bathrooms and kitchens; as do many guesthouses.

circus opened up a hotel in berlin; it retains a lot of the circus's vibe and certianly has a communal feel to it. but its definately a hotel because it only has private rooms. they call it a hotel, presumably to differentiate from their hostel.

Hostels advertise on B&B/Guesthouse websites, B&B/Guesthouses advertise on Hotel websites, Hotels advertise on Hostel websites - disseminating a restrictive definition of a Hostel won't change that.

some hostels do that yes, but the main pattern is the other way. and no, our definition isnt likely to change that. but if your guesthouse should be considered a hostel because it has a communal feel to it, whats to stop a hotel thats infamous more parties also declaring itself a hostel because it brings people together? or a campground with a central kitchen and games room from also declaring itself a hostel?

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Josh Hostels

15 years

I still think the Guardian came pretty close: -

[INDENT]What still distinguishes the hostel from its bigger, more expensive brothers is that each retains some form of communal living; shared social spaces that bring travellers together, even if it's just a bar and kitchen.[/INDENT]

Granted it is more open, and harder to enforce, but I think it captures the ethos of a Hostel.

I think that definition is missing something and is too ambiguous (which I've mentioned in the other forum threads linked-to above).

Could Far Out Camping (mentioned above) be considered a hostel? There is no difference in feel from Far Out Camping from a good party hostel, except there are no dorms, or even hotel rooms.

If not "hostels", what word should be used for a properties that offer shared accommodation?

I think you have already answered your own question: -

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If "hostel" doesn't refer to a property that offers shared accommodation, what would you call a property that offers only shared accommodation? You could call it a "hostel", but if hotels are called hostels too, there is no word left in the English language to distinguish what this kind of accommodation is.

Having to say "hostel with shared accommodation" is like having to say "motel with parking spaces" -- it's too long to be the name of an accommodation type :)

I don't think you should shorten "Backpackers Hostel" to Hostel (that's what I feel your definition describes) - I think you should shorten "Backpackers Hostel" to Backpackers.

I think "backpackers" (in accommodation) is just short for "backpackers hostel". There are "backpackers hotels" out there too -- usually guesthouses of some type that cater to backpackers.

Perhaps there could be a convention where, if you are offering Hostel ethos accommodation to a niche market you identify the niche: -

Surfers' Hostel
18-30's Hostel
Couples Hostel
Family Hostel
Group Hostel
Boutique Hostel
Walkers Hostel
XYZ Hostel

That already exists to some extent, but hostels should probably do it more.

... and if you search for grenoble hostel, HI - Hostel Grenoble - Echirolles Youth Hostel comes top...

The results are the same for "grenoble hostel" as for "grenoble hostels" -- 8 of the top 10 results in Google don't list any hostels.

Hostels advertise on B&B/Guesthouse websites, B&B/Guesthouses advertise on Hotel websites, Hotels advertise on Hostel websites - disseminating a restrictive definition of a Hostel won't change that.

I don't think the HostelManagement.com definition is restrictive, but I think that the mass selling of hotels as "hostels" would be bad for hostels.

It sounds like you're in an unusual position because of the regulations there, and that you have bunk beds. I'm still thinking about that and will read the PDF you linked to when I am able to.

I'll send a note out about this thread in the next newsletter and encourage more people to post their thoughts on the definition of hostel.

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Josh Hostels

15 years

I was reading the definition of hostel page and made a couple of small changes in wording.

I moved the word "backpackers hostel" into "synonyms & related" based on the discussion above, and added the word "groups" since many hostels don't only accept individual travelers. I mentioned private rooms because most hostels don't only have dorms. I'll wait for more comments on this thread before make other changes. I just sent out a link to about 175 people asking for comments, and will also link to this thread in the upcoming newsletter.

A hostel is a budget-oriented dormitory accommodation that accepts individual travelers (typically backpackers) or groups for short-term stays, and that provides common areas and communal facilities.

To be considered a hostel, the property must provide short-term, shared dormitory accommodation for individual travelers, though many hostels also provide private rooms.

I left "typically backpackers" in there to distinguish from places like YMCA/YWCA in the USA.

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Goofys

15 years

I think your definition...

A hostel is a budget-oriented dormitory accommodation that accepts individual travelers (typically backpackers) or groups for short-term stays, and that provides common areas and communal facilities.

... meets my experience, perception & expectations of a Hostel: -

Budget
Dorms (a room designed to sleep 3 or more adults)
Common areas
Communal facilities

... but I'm still not comfortable with this part (although I appreciate your reasoning)...

To be considered a hostel, the property must provide short-term, shared dormitory accommodation for individual travelers, though many hostels also provide private rooms.

... take a Hostel, and remove some of the elements above, and it's probably not a Hostel any more...

... take a budget Guesthouse with common areas and communal facilities - add in dorms (even if they're private), and it probably won't meet peoples expectations of a Guesthouse any more (Quality in Tourism certainly think so in the case of bunkbeded dorms) - it's probably a Hostel (or somewhere very close).

I hope you appreciate our reasoning for calling Goofys a Hostel - it's not commercially motivated - it's because we feel that we are running Hostel ethos accommodation - and that Boutique Hostel best sums up what to expect. If somebody knocks on our door looking for a bed in a shared dorm, we won't try and sell them a single room - we just send them 5 minutes round the corner to St. Christophers.

Having had this discussion (I hadn't put that much thought into it before), I think dorms are a defining characteristic of a Hostel (shared or private) - take away the dorms, and it's just a sociable Guesthouse/Hotel.

It's probably best if I leave it at that for now (give somebody else a chance) - but I might jump back in again if the discussion gets going.

Thanks,

Goofys :: Boutique Hostel :: Newquay

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gordo

15 years

add in dorms (even if they're private)

what exactly is a private dorm?
a room with bunks? what if there arent any bunks? ive stayed in more than a few hotel rooms that could sleep 6 (2 doubles and a fold out double) - are they dorms?

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Goofys

15 years

what exactly is a private dorm?

...

Dorms (a room designed to sleep 3 or more adults)

...

Sleeping dormitories

... in hostels, the room typically has very few furnishings except for beds. Such rooms can contain anywhere from 3 to 50 beds (though such very large dormitories are rare except perhaps as military barracks). Such rooms provide little or no privacy for the residents, and very limited storage for personal items in or near the beds

private - adj

Designed or intended for one's exclusive use

dormitory (dorm) - noun

a room containing a number of beds and serving as communal sleeping quarters

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